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The German Times: How do we overcome the crisis caused by Ireland's "No"?
Jean Asselborn: The Irish have said: We want to remain in the heart of Europe. That is a clear message. But I would be lying if I said that Europe will manage this somehow, that it has worked out other difficulties in the past.
The German Times: In fact the treaty was supposed to take effect on Jan. 1. Is it still possible to keep that date?
Jean Asselborn: That date can no longer be achieved. Now our goal has to be to hold the European elections in June 2009 in accordance with the Lisbon Treaty. Getting there will take a lot of hard work. It goes without saying that we cannot put a lot of pressure on Ireland; that could have exactly the opposite effect. Nonetheless, we have to make this goal very clear, time and time again, during the coming weeks - also to the Irish.
The German Times: What can Europe do to make a second referendum palatable to the Irish? And what do the Irish themselves have to do?
Jean Asselborn: We don't have the right to make a second referendum "palatable" to Ireland. Only the Irish can decide if they want to organize a second referendum or not. If Ireland says, "We want to remain in the heart of Europe," then it's Ireland's business to choose the instrument that they need.
The German times: Are there instruments other than a second referendum?
Jean Asselborn: I cannot imagine any. But if Ireland wants to organize a second referendum, it will of course require the help of the European Union - but smart help. The sledgehammer approach won't get us anywhere.
The German Times: What could such "smart help" look like?
Jean Asselborn: One can weaken the arguments cited by the opponents: that the neutrality of Ireland would be put in question, that the European Union would interfere with Ireland's domestic abortion laws and that Dublin's fiscal sovereignty would threatened. One could also imagine an explanatory protocol. But making that kind of declaration doesn't mean revising the substance of the existing treaty. It is very likely, however, that by the next summit in October, Ireland will not be willing to create such a package and maybe the European Union won't be either. So it could be that we won't have the Treaty of Lisbon for the elections of the European Parliament.
But we have to think further, about what other "smart" possibilities there may be. One might be that Ireland could combine the election of the European Parliament with a referendum on Lisbon.
The German Times: Assuming the EU was thrown back to the Treaty of Nice - there are already leaders who are saying "no expansion without a treaty." What ramifications would that have for the Balkans for example, which we want to pacify and stabilize by bringing it closer and closer to Europe? The negotiations with Croatia, for example, are in full swing.
Jean Asselborn: The expansion process and the consolidation process always have to run parallel. We have to watch out that we don't slam doors shut here and create a lot of bitterness, especially in the Balkans.
Europe - as former German Chancellor Schröder always said - is a peace project. We know that instability could reoccur in a region of geographic Europe, that region is the Balkans. Therefore, we have a task to accomplish, a more difficult one than introducing the euro.
The German Times: The relationship between the EU and Russia is a difficult one. Three points of contention currently strain it: Kosovo; the dispute surrounding the U.S. missile shield in Poland and the Czech Republic; and most seriously, the possible expansion of NATO to include the Ukraine and Georgia.
Jean Asselborn: Europe should be above letting itself be forced onto a track where we become a pawn for a big power on one side and another one on the other side. This is where we have to show our solidarity.
Regarding the missile shield, I have never understood why a big country like the U.S. negotiated with Poland and the Czech Republic about the security of Europe after the NATO debate in Riga - bilaterally with two countries instead of with Europe as a whole, or at least within the framework of NATO. The Americans - at least the Bush administration - still tends to negotiate with Europe bilaterally instead of negotiating with the whole of Europe. That helps neither Europe nor America. On the other hand, we geographically share a continent with Russia. We have to be aware of that. We don't want to go back to the 20th century, neither ideologically, politically, culturally, nor economically. Therefore, we need a healthy relationship with Russia.
That is difficult, of course. Russia does not correspond to our ideas of democracy. But one also has to know that Russia has never been as democratic as it is now. Russia has no culture of democracy. Therefore, as a European, one can only help by pushing the cart in the right direction - even if that takes a lot of time. And the U.S. is our historical partner. Without the U.S., we cannot formulate European foreign policy in the way that we want to, be it in the Middle East, in Africa, or in Latin America. When there is good cooperation between Europe and the U.S. a lot is possible, in crisis resolution as well. We have seen that in Iran and also in North Korea. Now on the subject of Kosovo: Russia's "Nyet" came at a time of tactical tensions. We had no alternatives in the Kosovo question. I believe that even if there is a pro-European government in Serbia, it will still take years. But we will get along with Russia on this issue.
The German Times: And the missile shield?
Jean Asselborn: With the missile shield there is the possibility of cooperation. The aggressiveness in the positions has abated. An agreement is possible, even if not one hundred percent. However that depends on how Europe, the U.S. and NATO behave during the NATO expansion. Here, I say very clearly that a balance in Europe is the basis of security policy in the 21st century as well. We cannot allow this balance to be destroyed. Certainly Russia does not have the power of veto to tell countries whether they can become members or not. But there is a balance and we cannot disregard it.
The German Times: In early July, the negotiations will begin for a new EU-Russia cooperation pact. Will that go well?
Jean Asselborn: I am convinced that after some difficulties and some tough debates, this agreement with Russia will be agreed to fruitfully. After all, Russia also knows that it needs Europe - not only economically.
The German Times: Where are the critical areas?
Jean Asselborn: The most difficult point regards the question of how Russia and the EU will deal with the countries situated between the two. That is the great political dispute that we will have to resolve. A second difficult point where things can only get better, however, is the relationship between the Baltic countries and Russia. Here, too, the European Union is called upon. Here, we can help both sides to overcome these difficulties that are rooted in a history full of suffering.
There are many strategic points where we can cooperate with Russia, be it in the Sudan, Iran or in many other places. And especially in Germany, people know what Russia represents from an energy policy perspective for the next 100 years.
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